iam_1900
09-11 11:50 AM
Google Order #366480709457688
Good luck with the rally
Good luck with the rally
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SkilledWorker4GC
07-15 02:50 PM
Total So far 1340.00. We are Well short of our target of 2000.00. Let's Go Guys. $5 to IV = Hope for GC = Subway FootLong Sub.
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GCBy3000
07-20 12:12 PM
We should not let Cornyn down due to this bill's failure. We have to send email and thank him for bringing up this bill eventhough it failed. This will keep up his spirit and make him feel that there are people behind him even if this bill failed. This will make him to pursue other amendments in favor of legal immigrants if at all there is a slight chance before this NOV.
So let us thank him. Should we? Yes if IV says.
So let us thank him. Should we? Yes if IV says.
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wonderlust
07-09 02:57 PM
Hard copies of letters are more powerful than emails. Please continue writing letters because we need sustained efforts. Please also consider asking Ameirican Citizens to send letters from their perspective. See the letter template drafted by my American friends:
__________________________________________________ ______________
NAME AND TITLE OF THE GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL
ADDRESS
July 9 2007
Dear (TITLE AND LAST NAME):
I am a tax payer and resident of (YOUR STATE). I seek your help in the following matter:
On June 13th, the U.S. Department of State online Visa Bulletin announced availability of a large number of immigration visa, which opens door for legal employment-based immigration applicants to submit their paperwork starting July 1st. On July 2nd, merely 2 weeks later, the Visa Bulletin published by the U.S. Department of State announced that �there will be no further authorizations in response to requests for Employment-based preference immigration application cases�. This drastic change is condemned by American Immigration Lawyers Association (AILA) as �Bait-and-Switch� policy which �slams the door� in the face of immigration applicants who are following the laws. New York Times called it �immigration malpractice�. This has been a waste of the government�s time and money.
As an American Citizen and a tax-payer, I have worked and lived alongside with many legal immigrants and prospective legal immigrants. They actively contribute to the economy, education, technology, culture, and research in the U.S.
They also respect and obey the laws, even though there are stringent scrutiny and limitation imposed. For example, they wait for years to complete the legal process, during that time, they cannot travel abroad without the serious risk of being denied re-entry. Having committed no crime, they have to notify the government every time they change their place of residence � something that, among American citizens, only convicted felons are required to do. They have spent hundreds, sometimes thousands, of dollars on government-mandated application fees and related costs. They have underwent inordinate amounts of stress making sure their applications were complete and properly filled out in every way, knowing that any error or omission, real or perceived, could get their application automatically rejected. Through it all, they had faith in the system of legal immigration. Now they are being penalized for following the law and for having faith in the system, because the federal government has dealt with them unjustly and deceptively. Such a way of dealing with prospective legal immigrants is sure to deter other highly skilled, intelligent people from wanting to live and work in the US, to the detriment of our country.
I request that you investigate and work to improve the procedures for legal employment-based immigration. Specifically, I strongly urge you to support the highly skilled people who are seeking legal employment-based immigration because they are actively contributing and improving the (YOUR STATE) Community and the greater American Society.
Sincerely,
YOUR NAME AND TITLE
COMPANY/ UNIVERSITY.
__________________________________________
Wonderlust
PD 06/2006
Member of IV since Feb 2007
__________________________________________________ ______________
NAME AND TITLE OF THE GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL
ADDRESS
July 9 2007
Dear (TITLE AND LAST NAME):
I am a tax payer and resident of (YOUR STATE). I seek your help in the following matter:
On June 13th, the U.S. Department of State online Visa Bulletin announced availability of a large number of immigration visa, which opens door for legal employment-based immigration applicants to submit their paperwork starting July 1st. On July 2nd, merely 2 weeks later, the Visa Bulletin published by the U.S. Department of State announced that �there will be no further authorizations in response to requests for Employment-based preference immigration application cases�. This drastic change is condemned by American Immigration Lawyers Association (AILA) as �Bait-and-Switch� policy which �slams the door� in the face of immigration applicants who are following the laws. New York Times called it �immigration malpractice�. This has been a waste of the government�s time and money.
As an American Citizen and a tax-payer, I have worked and lived alongside with many legal immigrants and prospective legal immigrants. They actively contribute to the economy, education, technology, culture, and research in the U.S.
They also respect and obey the laws, even though there are stringent scrutiny and limitation imposed. For example, they wait for years to complete the legal process, during that time, they cannot travel abroad without the serious risk of being denied re-entry. Having committed no crime, they have to notify the government every time they change their place of residence � something that, among American citizens, only convicted felons are required to do. They have spent hundreds, sometimes thousands, of dollars on government-mandated application fees and related costs. They have underwent inordinate amounts of stress making sure their applications were complete and properly filled out in every way, knowing that any error or omission, real or perceived, could get their application automatically rejected. Through it all, they had faith in the system of legal immigration. Now they are being penalized for following the law and for having faith in the system, because the federal government has dealt with them unjustly and deceptively. Such a way of dealing with prospective legal immigrants is sure to deter other highly skilled, intelligent people from wanting to live and work in the US, to the detriment of our country.
I request that you investigate and work to improve the procedures for legal employment-based immigration. Specifically, I strongly urge you to support the highly skilled people who are seeking legal employment-based immigration because they are actively contributing and improving the (YOUR STATE) Community and the greater American Society.
Sincerely,
YOUR NAME AND TITLE
COMPANY/ UNIVERSITY.
__________________________________________
Wonderlust
PD 06/2006
Member of IV since Feb 2007
more...
test101
07-05 01:44 PM
I just Spoke to sentor Specter office: 202-224-4254. They were very supportive. I spoke about the revised Visa bulltien and the effect of losing nurses. They were very sympathatic . I added i know how the sentor support immigration.
Please do call the office.. tell them about what is going on and thank them for supporting immigration in general.
they actually asked for my name ...
Please do call the office.. tell them about what is going on and thank them for supporting immigration in general.
they actually asked for my name ...
RandyK
07-05 01:54 PM
:d
more...
leoindiano
07-11 10:15 AM
Do we know if all EB2's before April 2004 got their GC's?
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gc_buddy
09-12 10:02 AM
The mere things that we are trying to use in the campaign do not cost more than $10.
Guys, Every penny is worth spending. Try looking back at the flower campaign that we did back in July 2007 and the magic it made..
Guys, Every penny is worth spending. Try looking back at the flower campaign that we did back in July 2007 and the magic it made..
more...
soumeeram
03-09 12:13 PM
Eb2- i - 15-reb-04
eb3-i - 01-nov-01
eb3-i - 01-nov-01
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alterego
10-01 09:51 PM
I think there will not much visa numbers unused. If at all, it may be in few hundreds. We are thinking our point of view, even wasting one visa number is ridiculus based on number peoples are waiting. However, the INA states that every year "not more than 140,000 EB visas should be issued".It sets only upper limit not the lower limit. Therefore DOS has be more vigilant in not exceding 140K. By doing so, there may be a few wastage of numbers. If they issue 120K instead of 140K, it is not the violation of law. Insted if they issue 141K it is vialotion of law.
However, if the wastage is more than few hundreds it is definitly not acceptable.
Last year they "wasted" about 10K visa numbers. It is absolutely up to them. However congress has authorized 140k a year and there are huge backlogs for AOS and CP. So when you put that together, leaving about 10K unapproved is clearly not enforcing congressional mandates. The ombudsman blasted them for this in his report, then we had the VB fiasco. None of this sounds like great management of the benefits. There clearly is room for improvement.
We (us and our employers) as the recipients of the benefits are complaining about this, and it is perfectly legitimate.
If any visa numbers are left unused, I definitely think we ought to take up this issue with congressional leaders like Zoe Lofgren. Even just a visa recapture legislation alone would help us tremendously until 2009(about the earliest they might get back to this issue more fully).
However, if the wastage is more than few hundreds it is definitly not acceptable.
Last year they "wasted" about 10K visa numbers. It is absolutely up to them. However congress has authorized 140k a year and there are huge backlogs for AOS and CP. So when you put that together, leaving about 10K unapproved is clearly not enforcing congressional mandates. The ombudsman blasted them for this in his report, then we had the VB fiasco. None of this sounds like great management of the benefits. There clearly is room for improvement.
We (us and our employers) as the recipients of the benefits are complaining about this, and it is perfectly legitimate.
If any visa numbers are left unused, I definitely think we ought to take up this issue with congressional leaders like Zoe Lofgren. Even just a visa recapture legislation alone would help us tremendously until 2009(about the earliest they might get back to this issue more fully).
more...
eb3_nepa
07-05 10:51 AM
My area senator is Mr. Sessions :eek:. What do you guys think, should I email him or not? I am sure that I am not going to get a courteous reply or as a fact of matter a reply at all.
Avoid mentioning this to Sen Sessions office. Try the other Senator and your local Congress person
Avoid mentioning this to Sen Sessions office. Try the other Senator and your local Congress person
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mw_immi
01-07 01:43 PM
I have pending 485, used Bank of America for my home loan. No problems whatsoever. And, I know loads of people who have bought homes while on H1B or pending 140/485. I believe 2009-2011 will probably be the best time to buy a home. If you can afford it and if you have job security, then you must buy one (rent it if you dont want to live). The aprs available currently is unbelievable (of course, good credit history and the amount you put down will decide mainly).
Did you have unexpired H1B / I-94? In my case I am on EAD / pending I-485 / AOS (expired H1 / I-94) & BOA didn't approve.
Do you know any one who didn't have H1B / I-94 but got loan from BOA based on AOS?
Did you have unexpired H1B / I-94? In my case I am on EAD / pending I-485 / AOS (expired H1 / I-94) & BOA didn't approve.
Do you know any one who didn't have H1B / I-94 but got loan from BOA based on AOS?
more...
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santb1975
05-22 01:31 AM
We have several bills that are being discussed to provide releif for all of us stuck in the Green Card process. We have very few dedicated volunteers working very hard and knocking the doors of representatives across the country seeking support for our bills. We need to lobby hard to get releif for all of us in this election year and lobbying is not cheap. We need dollars to keep up our lobbying efforts. We need help with raising dollars that are needed to keep working for our cause. We do not have Star Players and/or Star Athletes raising funds to support our cause. We need to do it ourselves. We all need to come together as a dedicated team with a mission to raise the targeted dollar amount. Can we do it?. Can we all step up and raise the dollars we need for our cause?.
Yes we can. Let's do it
Click on Contribute Now (http://immigrationvoice.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=26&Itemid=44) to make a contribution
Want to donate an amount not listed on the contributions page?. Login to paypal and send in your desired contribution to donations@immigrationvoice.org
Made a contribution already?. Get your friends to make a contribution as well
Yes we can. Let's do it
Click on Contribute Now (http://immigrationvoice.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=26&Itemid=44) to make a contribution
Want to donate an amount not listed on the contributions page?. Login to paypal and send in your desired contribution to donations@immigrationvoice.org
Made a contribution already?. Get your friends to make a contribution as well
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shantanup
06-11 01:05 PM
multiple year eads & ap - may or may not happen
visa recapture - no chance
visa increase - will not happen
still contribute??
Do you usually get paid first and then work? Do you get the returns first then you invest? Do you get the overpaid tax back first and then you file the tax return?
How do you know in advance that visa recapture and visa increase will not happen?
visa recapture - no chance
visa increase - will not happen
still contribute??
Do you usually get paid first and then work? Do you get the returns first then you invest? Do you get the overpaid tax back first and then you file the tax return?
How do you know in advance that visa recapture and visa increase will not happen?
more...
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knnmbd
04-25 12:59 PM
Guys what about the type of visa? I mean shud the start date be ur H1B start date or ur F1 entry date? Coz if some people start on an H1 a lot of us also started on an F1. In that case doesnt it make more sense to root for the clause that says the immigrant can apply for his own GC that is employer independant? If i am not mistaken, is that not already a part of the PACE act?
Besides a lot of people are not sure for a while, if they even want to apply for their GCs or not initially. I personally know of atleast 3 such people. By putting the responsibility of application of the GC into the immigrant's hands, and empowering the applicant to apply for himself/herself, the process becomes a lot more transparent and fair. That way the day the immigrant decides to apply and applies is their PD. That way if someone does not start it as soon as he/she can, it is now up to them. Since the applicant Can apply for himself instead of being sponsored for a GC by an employer, it is no longer employer based, so no one can fault the employer saying that, "They didnt file for me for a year".
In my opinion, just pushing ur PD to the date u entered will not really help a lot. Coz say ur current PD is Feb 2002 EB3 but u had entered in 1998. DOL/UCSIS will say, ok lets do that, and the next day they will say, Now the Retrogression goes back to the year 1996. Is that not possible? Currently what we need is the immigrant to be in total control of his/her GC process. That way the GC can take even 10 years, so long as the applicant and dependants can avail of EADs and Travel permits which are longer than just 1 year increments. If we are thinking long term, then shudnt we be looking at this aspect? The GC itself represents nothing more than total freedom in ur career and it's choices. If we can achieve the same thing without the actual GC, isint that our goal?
I agree. Also, since F1 is not a dual intent visa this will not hold water. Anyways this is a ridiculous demand. We are not the law makers and we should consider ourselves lucky that couple of IV's amendments are in a few of the senator’s bills, though there are no guarantees if they will be included in the final text or let alone be passed. We should only push for what is already include in the 2 bills and not confuse everyone every time one of us comes up with this "brilliant" idea of using H1B entry date as priority date. So what's the next amendment we want " include the day I first envisioned that I will come to America as the priority date". WE NEED ONE VOICE and we have already been heard so let’s stick to what is practical and push those amendments through.
Besides a lot of people are not sure for a while, if they even want to apply for their GCs or not initially. I personally know of atleast 3 such people. By putting the responsibility of application of the GC into the immigrant's hands, and empowering the applicant to apply for himself/herself, the process becomes a lot more transparent and fair. That way the day the immigrant decides to apply and applies is their PD. That way if someone does not start it as soon as he/she can, it is now up to them. Since the applicant Can apply for himself instead of being sponsored for a GC by an employer, it is no longer employer based, so no one can fault the employer saying that, "They didnt file for me for a year".
In my opinion, just pushing ur PD to the date u entered will not really help a lot. Coz say ur current PD is Feb 2002 EB3 but u had entered in 1998. DOL/UCSIS will say, ok lets do that, and the next day they will say, Now the Retrogression goes back to the year 1996. Is that not possible? Currently what we need is the immigrant to be in total control of his/her GC process. That way the GC can take even 10 years, so long as the applicant and dependants can avail of EADs and Travel permits which are longer than just 1 year increments. If we are thinking long term, then shudnt we be looking at this aspect? The GC itself represents nothing more than total freedom in ur career and it's choices. If we can achieve the same thing without the actual GC, isint that our goal?
I agree. Also, since F1 is not a dual intent visa this will not hold water. Anyways this is a ridiculous demand. We are not the law makers and we should consider ourselves lucky that couple of IV's amendments are in a few of the senator’s bills, though there are no guarantees if they will be included in the final text or let alone be passed. We should only push for what is already include in the 2 bills and not confuse everyone every time one of us comes up with this "brilliant" idea of using H1B entry date as priority date. So what's the next amendment we want " include the day I first envisioned that I will come to America as the priority date". WE NEED ONE VOICE and we have already been heard so let’s stick to what is practical and push those amendments through.
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jcrajput
09-11 03:49 PM
I don't understand how they calculate PD dates?
Can anyone help me here please?
Thanks
Can anyone help me here please?
Thanks
more...
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sagis99
08-08 11:06 AM
Lets all try to send this letter. I'm working with my HR to get this 7001 out - As Pappu said there should not be any reason why HR wont sign that form.
What's going on at NSC or TSC is Shame.... Peoples who applied in AUG-SEP 07 has got 140 approved at NSC where as folks back in APR-JUNE 07 is stuck and more over NSC claims that they are processing MAR 22 07 for last 5 months.
This deserves attention - I'm trying to ratchet up some pressure via Congressman and Senator's office but they are very busy these days with Presidential election , so i'm not getting the kind of help that they generally do.
It's always nice to get some kind response like this. thanks.
What's going on at NSC or TSC is Shame.... Peoples who applied in AUG-SEP 07 has got 140 approved at NSC where as folks back in APR-JUNE 07 is stuck and more over NSC claims that they are processing MAR 22 07 for last 5 months.
This deserves attention - I'm trying to ratchet up some pressure via Congressman and Senator's office but they are very busy these days with Presidential election , so i'm not getting the kind of help that they generally do.
It's always nice to get some kind response like this. thanks.
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arihant
03-13 12:26 PM
Here is a link to the following article:
http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cfm?articleid=33580&dcn=todaysnews
Looks like they have not come to the immigration issues yet.
Senate panel votes to double size of border force
By Michael Posner, CongressDaily
The Senate Judiciary Committee voted Thursday to add more border agents, investigators and fencing to stem rising illegal immigration as it worked its way through a major immigration reform bill.
In its third day of marking up the bill, the committee discussed nearly 30 amendments, approving a dozen of them by voice vote and postponing the rest for action next week.
In action during the day, the committee agreed to authorize over five years more than 10,000 new customs and border patrol agents, 1,000 investigators, and 1,250 port of entry inspectors. There was a dispute between Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., principal author of the amendment to boost the number of border agents, and Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., over exactly how many border patrol agents would be added in addition to the 11,300 border agents now. Committee staff said they would have to resolve the exact numbers later.
In addition, the committee adopted also by voice an amendment by Sen. John Kyl, R-Ariz., to replace some existing fencing in Arizona and add more than 200 miles of barriers to improve border security in Arizona only. Sessions has said he planned to offer an amendment on the Senate floor to put up some 700 miles of fencing to block off some of the 2,000 miles of U.S. border with Mexico. The committee also agreed to an amendment by Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., for a study to study the feasibility of more fencing along the entire border.
The committee made more progress than it did Wednesday when only three relatively minor amendments were adopted after spending all day with many senators absent, preventing a voting quorum.
"We're on our way," said Committee Chairman Arlen Specter, R-Pa., Thursday. "We had a good session." Specter is trying to meet a target set by Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., to start debate on an immigration bill on March 27. Specter indicated yesterday it might not meet that goal because of the slow pace of deciding on amendments.
The committee is working its way through a 306-page draft proposed by Specter to beef up enforcement and deal with the estimated 11 million illegal aliens living in the United States by allowing qualified undocumented workers to continue working as a way to earn eventual citizenship. He also has proposed a separate guest worker program allowing foreigners to enter the country for up to six years to take jobs that cannot be filled.
Both provisions are highly controversial and are considered the heart of the bill but debate on those matters will not take place until next week at the earliest. The committee plans to work next Wednesday and Thursday on immigration.
The House passed a bill last year that deals mainly with enforcement and does not address the thorny guest worker issue.
In other amendments, the committee agreed to a Feinstein amendment to allow immigrants to stay in the United States if it was discovered their papers or passports were falsified. The immigrants would have to prove there was "a credible fear of prosecution" as the reason passports were forged to get out of countries with dictatorships.
A Sessions' plan was approved that would jail immigrants found to be illegal instead of releasing them pending immigration hearings. He argued many of those released never show up for immigration hearings and disappear. Sessions also won committee endorsement to make it a crime to run a vehicle past a customs checkpoint without stopping.
Three amendments by Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, met no opposition. One would require the Department of Homeland Security to make public foreign ownership of management operations that involve national security as a way to prevent officials being surprised by situations like the Dubai port management controversy.
A Grassley proposal to allocate more immigration investigators to inland states like Iowa won easy approval. So did one to make immigrants convicted of drunk driving one of the crimes subject to deportation.
An amendment by Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan., extending a law allowing foreign doctors to practice in mainly rural areas with physician shortages, also gained approval.
And an amendment by Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., for expedited deportation instead of incarcerating convicted illegal immigrants was also accepted. Sen. John Cornyn, R-Tex., won approval of his proposal to bar violent criminals from sponsoring foreigners seeking entry into the United States.
http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cfm?articleid=33580&dcn=todaysnews
Looks like they have not come to the immigration issues yet.
Senate panel votes to double size of border force
By Michael Posner, CongressDaily
The Senate Judiciary Committee voted Thursday to add more border agents, investigators and fencing to stem rising illegal immigration as it worked its way through a major immigration reform bill.
In its third day of marking up the bill, the committee discussed nearly 30 amendments, approving a dozen of them by voice vote and postponing the rest for action next week.
In action during the day, the committee agreed to authorize over five years more than 10,000 new customs and border patrol agents, 1,000 investigators, and 1,250 port of entry inspectors. There was a dispute between Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., principal author of the amendment to boost the number of border agents, and Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., over exactly how many border patrol agents would be added in addition to the 11,300 border agents now. Committee staff said they would have to resolve the exact numbers later.
In addition, the committee adopted also by voice an amendment by Sen. John Kyl, R-Ariz., to replace some existing fencing in Arizona and add more than 200 miles of barriers to improve border security in Arizona only. Sessions has said he planned to offer an amendment on the Senate floor to put up some 700 miles of fencing to block off some of the 2,000 miles of U.S. border with Mexico. The committee also agreed to an amendment by Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., for a study to study the feasibility of more fencing along the entire border.
The committee made more progress than it did Wednesday when only three relatively minor amendments were adopted after spending all day with many senators absent, preventing a voting quorum.
"We're on our way," said Committee Chairman Arlen Specter, R-Pa., Thursday. "We had a good session." Specter is trying to meet a target set by Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., to start debate on an immigration bill on March 27. Specter indicated yesterday it might not meet that goal because of the slow pace of deciding on amendments.
The committee is working its way through a 306-page draft proposed by Specter to beef up enforcement and deal with the estimated 11 million illegal aliens living in the United States by allowing qualified undocumented workers to continue working as a way to earn eventual citizenship. He also has proposed a separate guest worker program allowing foreigners to enter the country for up to six years to take jobs that cannot be filled.
Both provisions are highly controversial and are considered the heart of the bill but debate on those matters will not take place until next week at the earliest. The committee plans to work next Wednesday and Thursday on immigration.
The House passed a bill last year that deals mainly with enforcement and does not address the thorny guest worker issue.
In other amendments, the committee agreed to a Feinstein amendment to allow immigrants to stay in the United States if it was discovered their papers or passports were falsified. The immigrants would have to prove there was "a credible fear of prosecution" as the reason passports were forged to get out of countries with dictatorships.
A Sessions' plan was approved that would jail immigrants found to be illegal instead of releasing them pending immigration hearings. He argued many of those released never show up for immigration hearings and disappear. Sessions also won committee endorsement to make it a crime to run a vehicle past a customs checkpoint without stopping.
Three amendments by Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, met no opposition. One would require the Department of Homeland Security to make public foreign ownership of management operations that involve national security as a way to prevent officials being surprised by situations like the Dubai port management controversy.
A Grassley proposal to allocate more immigration investigators to inland states like Iowa won easy approval. So did one to make immigrants convicted of drunk driving one of the crimes subject to deportation.
An amendment by Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan., extending a law allowing foreign doctors to practice in mainly rural areas with physician shortages, also gained approval.
And an amendment by Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., for expedited deportation instead of incarcerating convicted illegal immigrants was also accepted. Sen. John Cornyn, R-Tex., won approval of his proposal to bar violent criminals from sponsoring foreigners seeking entry into the United States.
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snathan
08-23 03:16 PM
My friend, "USA point of view is multinational executives can potentially create jobs", but the reality is the other way round. They are here to to make the transition happen from Onshore to Offshore. I have complete knowledge on how this EB1 thing works , as I was one of them once upon a time before taking up my current job.
I'll stop and leave it here....
I second this.
I'll stop and leave it here....
I second this.
nyte_crawler
09-02 02:22 PM
More than 7 years in I 485 pending status. :confused:
jonty_11
09-10 03:02 PM
Remember this is the October VB...so thisis waht is in store for teh next Fiscal year..Oct 08 to Sept 09....so be ready for another year of drudgery....
Sometimein July Aug 2009, they will move dates again to prevent wastage..and again some lucky bastards will get thru...unlucky-always i.e. u and me...with continue to tread these forums....I need a break.............
Sometimein July Aug 2009, they will move dates again to prevent wastage..and again some lucky bastards will get thru...unlucky-always i.e. u and me...with continue to tread these forums....I need a break.............
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